Glenn Willen ([info]gwillen) wrote,
@ 2009-01-20 21:52:00
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Mystery Hunt!
[This was originally a comment on this post by [info]530nm330hz, but it got too long for the comment box, so I decided I should make it an entry. So that's why it reads like a reply to that post.

Note also that most of this is about 1) the Reverse Dimension metapuzzle's first stage, because I thought it was the coolest thing ever, and 2) the difficulty of the metas in general. There was a LOT MORE to the hunt than that, but I will never get around to writing a "real" Mystery Hunt wrapup post, so this will have to sufice. ;-)]


First things first: Yaaay there was a Mystery Hunt! :-D These things will never get old. ^_^ They're always Damned Fun, no matter who's running them, and that's really impressive. :-)


On the obviousness of the fact that 8 answers <-> 8 planets in the Pluto meta: Never ever refrain from saying something during hunt just because it's obvious. ;-) It took the Sages a surprising number of hours to catch on to that one (which was the first meta we solved.)



I completely agree on the coolness of the Doctor round, in particular Buzzcut/9th doctor's puzzle. As someone who's never so much as solved a diagramless crossword before (they always looked hard! ;-), I was absolutely floored by the beauty of that puzzle. In retrospect we should have listed the answers out in gridded rows, just as you did, and if we'd done so we would probably have seen it sooner. The AHA of the overlapping answers, which you guys got _before_ the AHA of finding the grid, we didn't get until afterwards.

In addition to never refraining from saying obvious things, you should never refrain from saying dumb things during the hunt. I believe it took fully three different times of people saying things prefaced with "this is dumb, but" for us to solve this puzzle. :-) The first was "hey, this sounds dumb, but what if that wormhole picture is the grid?" Honestly I can't even remember who said it, I was so tired at the time. At that point we had already been analyzing anything else we could come up with to use as grids, so several people immediately noted that not only was it 15 across (suspiciously promising) it had just about the right number of squares for all the answers to fit, in which it differed from every other thing we had tried, including e.g. the board (_very_ suspiciously promising!) so despite skepticism we started throwing letters on it.

We had no idea what to do, so we decided "yeah, this is dumb, all these answers are completely unchecked, there's no way this could be the puzzle! But we'll just start listing answers in rows in the grid, because we have no better ideas." So we started with the first row, ran it to the right edge, then turned it 90 degrees and ran it down until we ran out of letters. We proceeded with about 7 rows before cooler heads decided this was never going anywhere.

I think we were actually on the verge of deciding to erase it and try something else when Alan [I hope I got his name right...], whose last name I don't even know, but he's brilliant and timid, came in and said "you know, this is dumb, it's probably nothing, but I see the word 'iceberg' in there..." and then several people called out words in the following couple of rows, and we all started applauding and told Alan to please talk more. :-D

It actually took 3 or 4 minutes before someone _else_ called out "hey, those aren't just words. They're answers!!" And that was the point at which we got _really_ excited. ;-)

Anyway, I went on at such length about this puzzle because it was my absolute favorite puzzle of the hunt, and it was a joy to help solve it. We had about a dozen people in the room, which was pretty much capacity, and the excitement was palpable. (Recall, in case you'd forgotten, we're a very large team.) I found it so much of a joy to help solve the puzzle, I barely had room for anger and disappointment when it told us something we already knew, after all those hours. :-P (We never did solve the actual meta. Checkers?! This was clued how? Oh well. At least it didn't involve a map of the Senate.)



I agree with you on the excessive number of AHA! moments per meta, and the partially-resultant degree of bottlenecking present in the Hunt. If you guys didn't like the bottlenecks, imagine being on a team of over 100 people with nothing left but two metas and about three other puzzles unlocked, at the end of the first round, for probably over an hour. :-\ Every single metapuzzle was a long hard-fought struggle, and it was just too many hard-fought struggles for one hunt. They all seemed to require nearly all the round answers, and in each half of the hunt you had to solve all metapuzzles to move forward; and every single meta had quite a few leaps, which to me felt more unchecked than not (although once they put the puzzle site back up, I think I'm going to take a more detailed look at "number of unchecked intuitive leaps per metapuzzle".)

It ultimately felt like for every meta, we kept Seeing How it Worked!!! and then we couldn't solve it, and we iterated that enough times to despair at getting to the end of any of them.


And despite all that, let me reiterate that the hunt was Damned Fun. :-D I am looking forward to many more of these, both Evil Midnight Bombers hunts -- despite length and difficulty, I have tremendously enjoyed both that I've been to, and find them to be masterful writers -- and hunts in general.

We are still hoping that some day the Manic Sages will win one... as several of us have gotten in the habit of saying, "hopefully next year". ;-)



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[info]DeMarko [wordpress.com]
2009-01-21 03:28 am UTC (link)
*ahem* go Manic FUCKING Sages!

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[info]DeMarko [wordpress.com]
2009-01-21 03:29 am UTC (link)
also, Pluto is not a planet >_>

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[info]qaqaq
2009-01-21 04:43 am UTC (link)
If you guys didn't like the bottlenecks, imagine being on a team of over 100 people with nothing left but two metas and about three other puzzles unlocked, at the end of the first round, for probably over an hour.

Oh yeah? We were a team of 25 people who had all 5 metas solved with only 3 puzzles + the board game left to solve for ... wait for it ... EIGHT HOURS. For either three or five hours (can't remember now which it was), it was down to ONE unneeded puzzle plus the game.

Now that's what I call a bottleneck. Among other terms I could use.

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[info]gwillen
2009-01-21 05:26 am UTC (link)
Hey, you wrote that NY Times crossword that appeared last year, didn't you? That's the sort of entertaining surprise I always enjoy. :-)

I don't even remember how long we were bottlenecked at the end of round one, but you definitely have us beat. I see from your LJ that you were on SETEC this year -- is it true you guys take a shot after every puzzle you solve? Because it's a really entertaining rumor. ;-)

All I know about the board game is that some Sages had already played through the whole sample game and had it all written out by the time we got our hands on the strategy guide (advantage of having a v. large team -- spare people!), so once they got it, I understand it didn't take them too long to get through it. I was asleep for a two or three hours during the time they did it though, so I don't actually know how long it took.

You will likely be interested to know that Death from Above actually thought to keep a _recording_ of the wrapup this year, so you can still watch it! As mentioned in the post I was replying to, it really drives home the point that every meta had a few too many components for the solvers' sanity...

Recording can be found here.

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[info]gwillen
2009-01-21 05:30 am UTC (link)
And by "appeared last year", I of course meant "appeared in the hunt", as I am well aware you write crosswords far more often than that! :-)

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[info]yuethomas
2009-01-21 06:54 am UTC (link)
The Doctors meta involved a diagramless? Wow.

I got a refund on my flight home, so I guess I have no reason not to show up next year. Go Sages!

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[info]yuethomas
2009-01-21 06:57 am UTC (link)
Also, it's probably Alan Deckelbaum.

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[info]chessbot
2009-01-21 07:57 am UTC (link)
Alan Huang, actually.

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[info]oxeador
2009-01-21 09:33 pm UTC (link)
Alan Huang, indeed. For reference, he was the one who made the second key observation 4 minutes later as well (that those were not just words, but answers).

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[info]gwillen
2009-01-21 07:20 am UTC (link)
Not an ordinary diagramless crossword, a truly breathtakingly wacky crossword without a diagram.

It was done on a 15 across, 31 down grid, with reflection symmetry across the 16th (middle) row (though we didn't know this for sure when we started.) There were no black squares; every square was in exactly two answers except the 16th row, which read out the final answer.

The numbers 1-15 were to be placed in the first 15 rows in the first column, for answer groups 1-15; each group of answers (30 characters long?) started at its number, then proceeded horizontally until it ran out of space, then down for awhile, then across again. By vertical symmetry, you only had to take care of the across chunk and the down chunk -- the second bend took place on the bottom half of the board, and meanwhile as you were going down, the second half of the same group of answers was coming UP in the same spaces, then bending to the right. Thus a section in the middle of every group of answers was palindromic, and every square participated in the first half of one group and the second half of another group.

It was really beautiful. :-)

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[info]gwillen
2009-01-21 07:25 am UTC (link)
Actually, the geometry of this puzzle still baffles me, but I guess the answer groups must have been 31 characters long -- each square really was in two answers, in a sense, including the middle row; it's just that in the middle row, it happened to be not merely in two copies of the same answer, but in fact the same (middle) letter position in both copies.... thus it was unchecked even though it was covered twice.

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[info]platypuslord
2009-01-21 05:40 pm UTC (link)
There was an ordinary diagramless as well: "Space Invader", part of Hiigara.

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[info]neonsunshine
2009-01-21 06:55 am UTC (link)
I really liked the Dual Singularities crossword as well, but unfortunately I was working remotely on a team that was mostly *not* remote, and so it was solved well before I had even got all of the clues. It was frustrating trying to collaborate with the rest of the team when it was me and Ross here in Pgh and then everyone else in one room together.

The worst was that "Zhongwen? That's a terrible space cowboy name!" puzzle. I was making so much progress on my own, just me and my radical dictionary, but got beat out by a native speaker ;__;

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[info]neonsunshine
2009-01-21 06:59 am UTC (link)
Eep, not the dual singularities one. I fail.

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[info]gwillen
2009-01-21 07:21 am UTC (link)
Reverse Dimension.

Dual Singularties was _also_ a cool-looking crossword, though I didn't work on it.

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[info]hahathor
2009-01-21 12:12 pm UTC (link)
I hope to get around to writing my hunt post at some point, but I just want to say - YAY Sages!! I loved, loved LOVED solving with you guys (and my post will probably be more about that experience than any of the puzzles); Ed and I are really looking forward to doing it again next year. Thanks for being so welcoming. And yeah, solving the Doctor meta with a moderate buzz on in a room full of overtired geniuses half my age is about the most fun I have ever had.

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[info]ultrawaffle
2009-01-21 02:04 pm UTC (link)
I can give a more detailed history of how the crossword got solved. I was the one that suggested using the wormhole picture. As I recall, I prefaced the suggestion with "Well, here's a crazy, but what if...". We dawdled for a while until I got [info]roed314 to get out his awesome wet-erase grid thing and we started entering answers pretty arbitrarily. Then [info]cesium12 (Alan H) noticed ICEBERG and someone else noticed ADONIS and I noticed NYLON ("If it's misogyny, we have nylon! Yay misogyny!"). Then it was [info]cesium12 again that noticed that they matched clues, but he only said it quietly to me and I repeated it for the whole group. From there we were set.

The one thing that makes me sad about that puzzle is that the picture we were given was very clearly a cylindrical grid, but none of the answers ever wrapped around.

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[info]oxeador
2009-01-21 09:34 pm UTC (link)
The topology discussions were very cool, too.

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[info]cesium12
2009-01-25 05:37 pm UTC (link)
Hi there.

For the record, I said them right after I thought of them. I.e., I hadn't been sitting on the (non)stupid ideas for a while. And I prefaced the first one with something like "I'm really tired and probably hallucinating, but...".

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[info]jcberk
2009-01-22 05:13 am UTC (link)
Very much with you on the multiple ahas for phase two metapuzzles. Oh well. [info]rford has a good description of simplicity in metas.

Reading this makes me realize how lucky we were in our timing. We got our fifth phase one meta at about 9am Saturday, as phase two puzzles were released, so there wasn't a time when all we had was the game (we were part-way through playing the sample already; I'm not actually sure how long the phase one metameta took us). Having been stuck on one puzzle with nothing else for hours in the past (cough, orange star meta), it would have been incredibly demoralizing for our team to do that again. Sorry you guys had the bottlenecking this year. On to 2010....

-Jennifer, Metaphysical Plant

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